Posts by Darth Rutherford

21

For All Jehovah's Witnesses: When did Jesus begin ruling as King?

by Darth Rutherford in

to all jehovah's witnesses, here is an easy question you can answer... when did jesus begin ruling as king?.

watch tower answers:.

following his resurrection, jesus ascended to heaven and waited at gods right hand until 1914 to begin ruling as king.

Darth Rutherford

Thanks Searcher... I especially love the point about Melchizedek. I'm going to use that!

21

For All Jehovah's Witnesses: When did Jesus begin ruling as King?

by Darth Rutherford in

to all jehovah's witnesses, here is an easy question you can answer... when did jesus begin ruling as king?.

watch tower answers:.

following his resurrection, jesus ascended to heaven and waited at gods right hand until 1914 to begin ruling as king.

Darth Rutherford

Thanks tornapart... that's very kind of you. I try not to be as dogmatic as I used to be. My thoughts are always evolving, and I find that so fascinating!

Rattigan350... wow, that is incredibly profound and so simple... you convinced me. All hail the Governing Body for their deep wisdom! LOL!

Thanks all!

21

For All Jehovah's Witnesses: When did Jesus begin ruling as King?

by Darth Rutherford in

to all jehovah's witnesses, here is an easy question you can answer... when did jesus begin ruling as king?.

watch tower answers:.

following his resurrection, jesus ascended to heaven and waited at gods right hand until 1914 to begin ruling as king.

wantingtruth, I read your link. You definitely make many points that deserve merit. In fact, you go into a lot of detail regarding the same subject. For the most part, I agree with your conclusions; however, my awakening from the WT has taught me never to be totally dogmatic about things.

I'm not trying to debate the nature of Jesus' authority as king. I'm not saying I have it all figured out. I don't, nor do I expect to ever have all the answers. One thing I learned over the last couple of years is not to presumptuously believe I know anything any more. We are all looking for truth, and I applaud your research and your argument.

My goal is to find ways to quickly refute Watch Tower teachings. As Witnesses, we were trained to "prove" our teachings with as few Scriptures as possible. My strategy is much the same. Fight fire with fire. Witnesses only reference the Bible and their literature; therefore, those must be our tools as well in order to be effective. In fact, the Bible and WT literature is more than sufficient to prove that the organization is false.

Additionally, time is of the essence. We need to quickly counter the Witness and plant some seeds of REAL truth before his mind shuts down through cognitive dissonance.

What I want to show the Witness is simple: the Watch Tower model does not fit the Scriptural model.

With just a handful of Scriptures, we can show a Witness that there is no centuries-long "staging area" where Jesus waits to be made king. When you read the Greek scriptures, you get the sense that the first century Christians considered Jesus ALREADY as king.

At Psalm 110:1 Jesus would sit at God's right hand UNTIL God places his enemies as a stool for his feet. Paul was directly alluding to the psalmist at 1 Corinthians 15:25,26. According to his words, the last enemy to be be subdued is death. That means that Jesus would sit at God's right hand until the last enemy, death, is also brought to nothing.

Additionally, Paul shows that Jesus is ruling as king UNTIL all enemies have been placed under his feet. This means that Jesus is ruling as king WHILE sitting at God's right hand.

At Ephesians 1:20,21, Paul makes it clear that Jesus was ALREADY in power at God's right hand in heaven, ruling above all authorities in THIS (the current) system of things.

It's simple logic: if a=b and b=c, then a=c.

I'm just trying to wake people up. Once they are awake, they have to walk the path we all are on and try to figure out what The Truth really is.

Hey YY2: Your picture of Jesus looks like Ronald Moore. LOL!

Seriously, you touch on something that has been on my mind lately. It probably merits its own thread. Nevetheless, I wonder if this whole idea of "waiting for Christ to rule" stumbles people because conditions on earth do not mirror our Messianic expectations of life under Christ's rule. However, are we being presumptuous to suppose that EARTHLY conditions would necessarily have to be paradisaic under Christ's rule? For example, if we are to believe the Bible, we have to acknowledge that Jesus is already king over heaven and earth. If Christ is king over the earth yet conditions on earth are not a paradise, then shouldn't we consider the possibility that it may not be his intent to clean up the earth?

Goodness, the flood cleaned the earth is one fell swoop, right? Well, he's had two thousand years to clean it up. What's up with that?

I am supposing that people tend to look to the earth for heavenly things. As JWs we certainly were... and that alone raises a red flag. However, if death is to "become nothing", doesn't that require a person to become immortal? Paul speaks of immortality at 1 Corinthians 15:54,55. There we see that death is indeed swallowed up forever. This last enemy is brought to nothing. However, it's brought to nothing in heaven -not on earth.

Think about it, is there anything in this physical universe that doesn't eventually decay and die - from atoms to stars? Everything in this realm dies... are we to believe that humans who are made up of the same elements of this universe would somehow live eternally? That makes no sense.

Scripturally, there is "one hope" for all Christians. (Eph 4:4) Only in the heavenly realm do we find the hope to live without dying. Jesus died to make a way for us to enter into that hope... in heaven. His followers were looking to heaven -not the earth to receive that hope. The hope of living forever on earth seems to ignore the reality of the physical universe as well as the actual hope outlined in the Bible.

Oh well, I digress...

21

For All Jehovah's Witnesses: When did Jesus begin ruling as King?

by Darth Rutherford in

to all jehovah's witnesses, here is an easy question you can answer... when did jesus begin ruling as king?.

watch tower answers:.

following his resurrection, jesus ascended to heaven and waited at gods right hand until 1914 to begin ruling as king.

Darth Rutherford

To all Jehovah's Witnesses, here is an easy question you can answer... When did Jesus begin ruling as King?

Watch Tower Answers:

Following his resurrection, Jesus ascended to heaven and waited at God’s right hand until 1914 to begin ruling as King. During that time, Jesus ruled over his anointed followers, guiding them in their preaching and disciple-making work as well as preparing them to rule with him in his Kingdom. (w06 9/1 p. 13 par. 6)

Prophetically referring to Jesus as “Lord,” King David said: “The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: ‘Sit at my right hand until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.’” (Psalm 110:1; compare Acts 2:34-36.) This prophecy indicates that Jesus’ rulership would not begin immediately after his ascension to heaven. Rather, he would wait at God’s right hand. (kl chap. 10 p. 96 par. 15)

And Jesus Christ has ruled as King of kings and Lord of lords over his congregation since Pentecost 33 C.E. But now, since 1914, he has been given kingly authority to rule in that capacity with his enemies placed as a ‘stool for his feet.’ (w94 6/1 p. 29)

Following his resurrection, Jesus likewise knew that he could rely on Jehovah’s utterance to ‘place his enemies as a stool for his feet.’ (Psalm 110:1) That time arrived in 1914, at the end of “the appointed times of the nations,” with the establishing of the Kingdom in the heavens. (w90 8/15 p. 11 par. 5)

As we see, the organization teaches that this sitting at God’s right hand is an extended period of time that exists until Jesus becomes King. According to this teaching, Jesus ascended to heaven to sit at God’s right hand and await his enthronement as king 1,881 years later in the year 1914. Then in 1914, Christ became King and Jehovah placed his enemies as a stool for his feet.

What the Bible Really Teaches:

The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” (Psalm 110:1)

For he must rule as king until [God] has put all enemies under his feet. As the last enemy, death is to be brought to nothing. (1 Corinthians 15:25, 26)

... with which he has operated in the case of the Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name named, not only in this system of things, but also in that to come. (Ephesians 1:20, 21)

First, according to the psalmist, Jesus would sit at God’s right hand until Jehovah placed his enemies as a stool for his feet. Paul then explains to the Corinthians that Christ would be ruling as king until God placed all his enemies under his feet. Therefore, since both occur until all enemies are subdued, the time period when Jesus sits at God’s right hand is the same time period when he is ruling as king. They are not separate events!

Next, note that one of the “enemies” is death itself. Therefore, Jesus would sit at God’s right hand until even death, the last enemy, has been placed under his feet. Likewise, he would rule as king until death is brought to nothing. Since death still exists, Jesus is still sitting at God's right hand. Clearly, sitting at God’s right hand is not a temporary time period where Jesus sits “on-deck”, awaiting his rulership to begin.

Finally, according to Paul words to the Ephesians, Christ’s sitting at God’s right hand began when he was raised from the dead. By these words, Jesus did not have to wait nearly 19 centuries to become king; rather, he was made king upon his resurrection. Hence, this is why he told his disciples, “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.” (Matthew 28:18) Those are the words of a king -not of someone waiting to become king.

Watch Tower's teaching outright contradicts the Bible. Watch Tower tries to reconcile this paradox by saying that Jesus “has ruled as King of kings and Lord of lords over his congregation since Pentecost 33 C.E”. (w94 6/1 p.29) If this is true, who are the “kings” and “lords” in the congregation over whom Jesus rules as King and Lord? There couldn’t be kings and lords in the congregation, for Jesus told his followers, “The kings of the nations lord it over them, and those having authority over them are called Benefactors. You, though, are not to be that way. But let him that is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the one acting as chief as the one ministering.” (Luke 22:25, 26) He also said, “Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for your Leader is one, the Christ.” (Matthew 23:10) There are no kings or lords in the congregation; therefore, these kings and lords must be those outside the congregation who rule on the earth. (And the kings can't be "anointed" Christians since they were not made kings yet in the first century.)

In conclusion, with three simple scriptures, Jehovah's Witnesses must acknowledge that Jesus did not have to wait until 1914 to become king, but he was made king upon sitting at God’s right hand after his resurrection, and will remain as such until all enemies –including death –will be brought to nothing. Jesus was made King and Lord in the first century over all heavenly and earthly authority – not just congregational authority.

What does this mean? For starters, rather than harmonize itself with the Scriptures, the Watch Tower organization remains stiff-necked, twisting the Scriptures to match its ludicrous 1914 teaching. In propagating this lie, the organization limits the true extent of Christ’s rulership over the world.

Witnesses must now make a choice: trust the Bible, or trust the organization.

(Hint: "Do not put your trust in nobles, nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs." -Psalm 146:3)

32

How many ways....

by Lady Lee in

... can you name that the wts hurts people?.

two big ones for me:.

it pushes people to the edge and when they commit suicide they say: "well he wasn't really a jw anyways soit has nothing to do with us".. it pushes people so much to do more and more and more that they get depressed, and physically sick.

Darth Rutherford

It screwed me out of having so many meaningful relationships with REAL friends when I was younger. They were "worldly" and I wouldn't allow myself to get too close to them. In my experience, worldly friends are sincere, loving, and kind... not because they "have to", but because they choose to. That's so much better than the judgmental hypocrisy among the "friends" at the Hall.

10

May the next generation fade walk away!

by SophieG in

jw
friends

do any of you see how the "truth" will fade out in future generations of your family?.

i have a few relatives either dfd or faded and we were talking about this.

we were talking how we would not raise our kids in the madness.

Darth Rutherford

I am the third and last generation of Witnesses. It ends with me. My children will be free at birth. It is my gift to them.

49

Did YOU Feel Abused By The Elders?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i know some here have said they pretty much hated the elders.

did you personally feel the elders were abusive men?.

Darth Rutherford

You're absolutely right, Designs... when under Duress, they all will turn. I was speaking in general terms; however, when they "have to" make mother happy, they'll eat their own.

49

Did YOU Feel Abused By The Elders?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i know some here have said they pretty much hated the elders.

did you personally feel the elders were abusive men?.

Darth Rutherford

In many ways it mimics the cycle of abuse. Someone who is abused may easily be abusive to others later on. There are abusive people whether they are elders or not. Remember, elders don't receive in special training. They simply mimic what their experiences have been in the organization. Publishers who were abused by elders tend to become abusive elders -repeating the cycle. Publishers who had good experiences with the elders tend to become more involved and caring with the congregation. The fact that loving, caring elders are rare speaks volumes.

We all probably have met abusive elders. I did... even when I was an elder. However, as an elder, I also dealt with abusive publishers who made my life harder than it needed to be.

In general, Jehovah's Witnesses are abused by the mother-organization who controls every aspect of their life. I blame the organization and the whole WT system that traps individuals into remaining in this abusive relationship. If Witnesses didn't feel so trapped, more would leave willingly. However, between the constant fear of displeasing God and dying at Armageddon and the fear of being shunned by the only social structure they have, these poor souls feel trapped.

That, in my opinion, is the epitome of abuse.

95

The ten most embarrassing scriptures for Jehovah's Witnesses

by slimboyfat in

jw
friends

1. mark 7:15 "there is nothing from outside a man that passes into him that can defile him; but the things that issue forth out of a man are the things that defile a man.. so how can eating black pudding or having a blood transfusion be a sin?.

2. roman 14:5 one [man] judges one day as above another; another [man] judges one day as others; let each one be convinced in his own mind.

so how come they say birthdays and festivals are a sin?.

Darth Rutherford

Here you go Simon:

“Every inspired expression that confesses Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh originates with God, but every inspired expression that does not confess Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the antichrist’s [inspired expression] which YOU have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world.” (1 John 4:2, 3)

18

To those still "in"... how do these scriptures impact you?

by leaving_quietly in

matt 7:13, 14: "go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14?whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.".

matt 24:44: "on this account you too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that you do not think to be it, the son of man is coming.".

2 pet 3:3, 4: "for you know this first, that in the last days there will come ridiculers with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires 4?and saying: where is this promised presence of his?

Darth Rutherford

LeavingQuiety: Remember, Jesus made it clear that many of his disciples would be led away those posing as true Christians. If they didn't look legitimate, then his disciples wouldn't be deceived.

What you're feeling is normal at this stage. Be patient. You need to follow the Bible's command, " Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world.” (1 John 4:1) You have been taught many things, but likely never truly questioned these "inspired" teachings to see how true they were. To "test" something requires that you start asking questions.

Also, reflect on 1 Thessalonians 5:21, " Make sure of all things; hold fast to what is fine.” Literally, that phrase means "be you proving." You have to start questioning everything you were taught, and prove whether it is true or not. Some of it may be true, some of it may not be true, but you have to do the work and prove it to yourself. We all could tell you what those verses mean in the greater scheme of things... but it won't mean anything until you see it for yourself. Don't assume everything you were taught is right; otherwise, you've done nothing but put your trust in nobles... and we know what the Bible says about that, right?

Hang in there... again, what you're feeling is normal. Everyone who has left a high-control group or cult goes through this stage. Even people who leave an abusive, dangerous relationship will go through moments of doubt. I promise you that it will get easier as you start testing these teachings and proving it to yourself.